Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:18 am

That's too bad. I wonder how long it will be before NG4?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:57 pm

reim0027 wrote:That's too bad. I wonder how long it will be before NG4?
Unless they surprise us and announce it at TGS I would probably say around 2016/2017
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:51 am

2-3 years? Damn . . . what'll happen to the NG community by then?
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Post by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:08 am

We'll be waiting...in the shadows
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:17 am

reim0027 wrote:2-3 years? Damn . . . what'll happen to the NG community by then?
seems about right though

ninja gaiden - ninja gaiden 2 was 4 year game not including NGB

Ninja gaiden 3 2012 - ninja gaiden 4 2016 seems right

I say that long because in an interview around Dec 2013 Hayashi said they are thinking of the next NG4 which I think means they are still in the planning stages
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by ensatsu-ken » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:29 am

It's probably for the best if it releases a couple of years from now. After NG3 and Yaiba, Team Ninja really needs to take a breather and really think about what type of game they want to make. With NG3, they were trying too hard to appeal to more modern gamers with the addition of multiplayer and a more restricted and streamlined single-player mode, which it turns out was for an audience that didn't care about the series in the first place. With Yaiba they tried to appeal to Western gamers by outsourcing it to a Western development team (who quite frankly had a very poor track record even before this game came out), and this showed since the developer didn't understand a thing about the tight controls and intense combat that were synonymous with the series.

I'm not saying that Team Ninja has to go back to NGB or NG2 and remake either of those games. I understand the need for the series to evolve, but they really need to think about the best way to do that without alienating the people who are most likely to buy and support the game in the first place, which are the fans. Honestly, after NG3 (yes, RE fixed some major problems, but I must admit that it didn't completely win me over in the end) and Yaiba, I can't say that I'm overly excited for a new NG game at the moment. Perhaps giving the series a gap of time between now and the next release may be for the best, so that they can start with a clean slate.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:48 pm

ensatsu-ken wrote:It's probably for the best if it releases a couple of years from now. After NG3 and Yaiba, Team Ninja really needs to take a breather and really think about what type of game they want to make. With NG3, they were trying too hard to appeal to more modern gamers with the addition of multiplayer and a more restricted and streamlined single-player mode, which it turns out was for an audience that didn't care about the series in the first place. With Yaiba they tried to appeal to Western gamers by outsourcing it to a Western development team (who quite frankly had a very poor track record even before this game came out), and this showed since the developer didn't understand a thing about the tight controls and intense combat that were synonymous with the series.

I'm not saying that Team Ninja has to go back to NGB or NG2 and remake either of those games. I understand the need for the series to evolve, but they really need to think about the best way to do that without alienating the people who are most likely to buy and support the game in the first place, which are the fans. Honestly, after NG3 (yes, RE fixed some major problems, but I must admit that it didn't completely win me over in the end) and Yaiba, I can't say that I'm overly excited for a new NG game at the moment. Perhaps giving the series a gap of time between now and the next release may be for the best, so that they can start with a clean slate.
Yaiba was created by Sparks Studio
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by ensatsu-ken » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:54 pm

I'm aware of that. Hence why I said that Team Ninja/Tecmo outsourced development to a Western Studio with a bad track record. My point was that it was a bad decision that they are still responsible for allowing. If they are going to release a game with the Ninja Gaiden title, it should be developed in-house, or if they do outsource it, it should be to a developer with a proven track record for creating good action games.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:05 am

I know many people were bitterly disappointed with NG3. Maybe TN will allow beta testing NG4 to look for input from the general public?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:18 am

reim0027 wrote:I know many people were bitterly disappointed with NG3. Maybe TN will allow beta testing NG4 to look for input from the general public?
If it's a real beta I think it's a good idea. (By real beta, I mean released early enough that there is still plenty of dev time to change and tweak things before release.)


Though, as I've said many times... I think RE shows them on the right track. Where RE suffers it's mostly due to A) it still being based on NG3 and B) it being thrown together (tons and tons of big and small changes from NG3 vanilla) in a relatively short time.

It seems they're also taking their sweet time with NG4, which is good. I'm cautiously optimistic about NG4. Hope Team Hayashi learns to balance the harder modes and missions a bit better this time around, though. Ultimate Ninja can go away as far as I'm concerned. :silly:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by ensatsu-ken » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:20 am

In general, I've found that with the NG sequels, a lot of the difficulty had more to do with enduring large waves of enemies in long gauntlets between save points. That simply isn't very fun at all. I hope that NG4 doesn't rely in that style of difficulty. I'd rather have fewer enemies to deal with, but ones which are much tougher individually than a swarm of weaker enemies would be. Also, I'd like for the boss fights to be more interesting this time around. IMO, NGB was the only time that they were fun and well-designed. I just never looked forward to fighting most of the bosses in NG2 and 3, mostly because they just came down to them spamming the same attacks in you until you finally got a chance to hit them.

For me, I'd ideally like a game with level and enemy design as good as NGB, the OT system from NG2, and the SOB counters from NG3RE, along with whatever new stuff that they could come up with to further improve the combat and general gameplay.
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Post by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:52 am

ensatsu-ken wrote: Also, I'd like for the boss fights to be more interesting this time around. IMO, NGB was the only time that they were fun and well-designed. I just never looked forward to fighting most of the bosses in NG2 and 3, mostly because they just came down to them spamming the same attacks in you until you finally got a chance to hit them.
Awakened alma, ishtaros and spirit doku would like a word with you. Hell, even regular alma you are waiting for a ninpo or flying swallow to actually connect.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:19 pm

Genshin is probably my favorite boss in the series. :razz:

But in general NGB had the most good bosses, yes. NG2 Genshin and the Greater Fiends plus the Archfiend II (when he isn't walking into a wall like a dumbass) are pretty good. In NG3 I thought the False Goddess was fun and Regent is OK. That was about it. And then later they make you fight 3 False Goddesses at once (of course!) and that's not very fun. :laugh2:

ensatsu-ken wrote: For me, I'd ideally like a game with level and enemy design as good as NGB, the OT system from NG2, and the SOB counters from NG3RE, along with whatever new stuff that they could come up with to further improve the combat and general gameplay.
I think a lot of people can agree with this. In keeping with enemy / encounter design that's a bit more like NGB, I think part of that is slowing it down slightly to make attacks more coherently readable and enemy co-ordination patterns stand out a bit more.

Also adding back in the light exporation / traversal / item collection / shopping elements would be nice, and giving full control of the character and weapon upgrade system back to the player is a MUST IMO. Again, NG3:RE is a good step in the right direction in a lot of ways here.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:18 pm

I agree about the NGB bosses. Best of the series. I didn't like the bosses in NG2/NG3. I do like swarms of enemies. It fits better with the playstyle. But, I don't want wave after wave. That gets a bit boring. I loved the sandbox design of NGB instead of the left-to-right in random area design of NG2/NG3. The story in NG3 was way too intrusive.
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Re:

Post by ensatsu-ken » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:50 am

Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX wrote:Awakened alma, ishtaros and spirit doku would like a word with you. Hell, even regular alma you are waiting for a ninpo or flying swallow to actually connect.
While some of those are among the weaker boss fights in the game, I'd still consider them better designed than many of the bosses in the sequels. Each of their attacks have clear tells that are well telegraphed, so if you get hit it's completely your fault. The bosses in the sequels move almost too fast, to the point where you barely have any time to react to their tells. Some people may like this, but I don't find it fun, personally. And even when you do get hit in NGB, you don't have obnoxiously long grab animations to deal with (Zedonius in particular was a really big offender of this). As for having to rely on a little luck for your attacks to connect, the same is true of many of the boss fights in the sequels. Comparatively, these are just a few exceptions in this game.

For the record I do like fighting Genshin from NG2, and The Regent of the Mask and Clone Ryu fights from NG3RE can be fun as well, but other than that I usually find the boss fights to be among the weaker aspects of those games.

At any rate, my point is that the boss fights in this series could really use an improvement, and I'm hoping that NG4 can deliver on that. I also think that the story mode could do with some better pacing. So far, I think that NGB was the best in that regard, with light puzzle-solving in-between major action sequences. Some people didn't like the puzzle-solving or platforming, which is understandable, but then Team Ninja should come up with some other deviation to break up the monotony of constant fighting. As much as I love NG2, I often play it in short bursts because of that, and I found that NG3 got especially tedious with the multiple enemy waves per fight. Save that for the ToVs, and mix it up a little in the main story-mode. I think that it would go a long way toward making NG4 a more fun game, while still retaining the core level of challenge that the series is known for.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:17 pm

Don't get me started on the ToVs. I hated them on NG2 and NG3. An enemy counter would help a lot. Otherwise, it just drags on and on. And, the enemy combinations were all annoying.
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Post by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:34 pm

Yeah, the odd puzzle or platforming to change the pace is a good design feature. I like a little more open world as well. I also like the pace of later ninja gaidens though too. I guess I am conflicted.

As far as bosses go, in general I really only dislike Elizabet, dagra dai and tunnel worm in ng2. In razors edge I find all the bosses reasonable except for canna on UN. So I don't fully get the complaints of bosses in the later games. That they are boring design wise has some truth.

Any boss that only has one viable strategy isn't the best design probably. Although , mixing in the odd ranged boss fight is a change of pace too, the problem comes when they are disproportionately harder then the regular boss fights (giga death).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Puregrunt » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:02 am

I honestly have no idea why everyone hates Gigadeth so much, i can't recall having any real difficulty with him, even on MN. He just goes back and forth, you shoot him in the face with arrows and spam Lunar Ut's. I think the chaotic fights and overall general speed in NG2 tops it all, even better than NGB. NGB has a slower more methodical feel to it, whereas in NG2 if you don't have your wits about you, especially on MN, you'll be dead FAST. It's only to spammy with the projectiles, and i blame that on a rushed release. I thought the Beserkers were, hands down the best match for Ryu as a tough mini boss type of enemy, i hope they make a return.

Genshin is awesome as a Boss as well, but i can't say i cared much for the others, Alexi, Elizabet, Volf and Zedonius. More frustrating than fun imo. NG3's Bosses were awful IMO, except maybe the prototype. They have to throw away most of the ideas that they used for NG3. Stick to using content from NGB and NG2, combat, level design, attention to detail and challenge. Razors Edge did a good job of repairing a bad situation, and i commend them for that, so you know they are aware of what to do.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by ensatsu-ken » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:57 am

reim0027 wrote:Don't get me started on the ToVs. I hated them on NG2 and NG3. An enemy counter would help a lot. Otherwise, it just drags on and on. And, the enemy combinations were all annoying.
I don't care for them either. I just find that they have one major redeeming quality: they are completely optional, hence why I never bother doing them on replays. Now, if that style of gameplay is forced into the main story levels, then there's a problem. If you don't like that style of gameplay in an optional mode, you certainly won't enjoy an entire story mode of repetitive enemy waves. That was my major problem with NG3, as it felt far too monotonous after just a couple of levels.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:03 am

I skip them. I don't even bother with them on my first playthrough. Not worth it, IMO. And, yeah, long grabs are infuriating and pointless.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by ensatsu-ken » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:21 pm

As for the grab moves, it'd be nice if they implemented something like DMC4's DT canceling to get out of them. In that game, when you get grabbed, you can break out of the animation if you activate your DT (assuming that you have enough), but in return it costs you some of your DT gauge. I think that it would be great if NG could implement something similar, where you can break out of a grab move at anytime, but have to sacrifice something else in return (this would be a perfect use of Ninpo, for example). Either that, or just don't make any extremely long grab animations that can't be interrupted or have to be broken out of by mashing buttons or destroying your left analogue stick by rotating it like crazy.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by kosmos » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:42 am

Let's hope this game is announced this year. :wave:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Puregrunt » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:57 am

kosmos wrote:Let's hope this game is announced this year. :wave:
I was wondering of your whereabouts, Kosmos. I'm glad you're still with us :thumb:


They just have to give us some info on this soon. I'd be happy just to see a few screenshots and maybe some feedback/input from TN about where they want to take the series.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:14 am

Puregrunt wrote:
kosmos wrote:Let's hope this game is announced this year. :wave:
I was wondering of your whereabouts, Kosmos. I'm glad you're still with us :thumb:


They just have to give us some info on this soon. I'd be happy just to see a few screenshots and maybe some feedback/input from TN about where they want to take the series.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by kosmos » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:44 am

Puregrunt wrote:
kosmos wrote:Let's hope this game is announced this year. :wave:
I was wondering of your whereabouts, Kosmos. I'm glad you're still with us :thumb:


They just have to give us some info on this soon. I'd be happy just to see a few screenshots and maybe some feedback/input from TN about where they want to take the series.
Still with you guys but I don't play NG much this days and I'm busy with other thing but I'm looking forward to be more active when they announce NG4.
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