Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

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Fiend Busa
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Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Sat May 03, 2014 8:46 pm

What does everyone hope for in NG4?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Sun May 04, 2014 2:51 am

Keep the story out of the gameplay. Make it more sand-box like. Bring back items. Don't make things so goddamn expensive to up grade that you either: farm SoBs the entire game, or not have everything upgraded. Keep the SoBs, UTs, and OTs. No more projectile only bosses (or bosses where the main attack is a projectile). That is total bullshit. Fix the stupid rocket launchers. Especially their insta-fire and the fact they can block everything they want, yet 1 arrow kills them. Stupid. No goddamn QTEs! I hate them. And, FFS, drop the "ultimate ninja" difficulty. Master Ninja should be the top difficulty; that should be intuitive. If you are going to have leaderboards, make it so they can't be hacked. Otherwise, they are worthless and playing the game for score is meaningless. I'd prefer Ryu only story mode. I'd also like a "design you own mission" mode. So, you can practice enemies in real life.

Basically, I liked the environment and time limits of NGB. I liked the aggressive fighting style of NG2 (none of this sissy blocking, the enemies just tried to kill you). I like the SoBs and a more combo-centric fighting of NGRE. I liked the girls being able to do chapter challenge in NGRE.
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Post by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » Mon May 05, 2014 2:58 am

I have been thinking about different ninpo ideas. Like what if you popped a ninpo and got to play as ratetsu for 20 secs? Or some sort of a summon would be neat to tank damage. Maybe a bubble shield you could pop to control / seperate enemies
I want new weapons
Fix laggy controls/ stick dead zones
I wouldn't mind a hub world again
More changes to the difficulties then just damage/ throw spamming, I want to see enemies you have never seen before and have a new experience each difficulty setting

Just a few of my thoughts
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Re:

Post by Fiend Busa » Mon May 05, 2014 4:06 am

Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX wrote:I have been thinking about different ninpo ideas. Like what if you popped a ninpo and got to play as ratetsu for 20 secs? Or some sort of a summon would be neat to tank damage. Maybe a bubble shield you could pop to control / seperate enemies
I want new weapons
Fix laggy controls/ stick dead zones
I wouldn't mind a hub world again
More changes to the difficulties then just damage/ throw spamming, I want to see enemies you have never seen before and have a new experience each difficulty setting

Just a few of my thoughts
Yo! I was thinking the same thing

Like you can use ninpo to call for support from Momiji,Hayate,Ayane or Kasumi
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by julius-ruler4 » Mon May 05, 2014 2:29 pm

I quote this from another post by another member

"Hayashi has 2 masterpieces to get inspiration from: NGB and NG2"

IMO do the same thing as in NGB: time limit for bosses, regular fights and UT's of 5k and 2k, Each UT gets you only 5k per UT, not per enemy. Time runs out, no more points for UT's.
and do the same as in NG2: unlimited amount of UT's, bring back the flails and tonfa

and divide everything in chapters with the NGB settings like 100k for time limit, 100k for kills, 100k for ninpo and 10k for essence.

This would bring back NGB and NG2 elements

Put also the ToV's into play and when you complete one of them in that specific chapter then double the bonuspoints for kills, time and ninpo when you complete that chapter. Bring in 5 rankings from NGB: Ninja Dog, Lesser Ninja, Greater Ninja, Head Ninja and Master Ninja.

I would set 5 difficulties

Path of the Ninja Dog
Path of the Lesser Ninja
Path of the Greater Ninja
Path of the Head Ninja
Path of the Master Ninja

Each difficulty will get newer enemies and the charging speed for the UT's is the same as in NG2 but put in the armlets or bands for Ninja Dog.

Storyline should get 24 chapters where you play as Ryu for 16 chapters, as Momiji for 2 chapters, as Rachel for 2 chapters, as Kasumi for 1 chapter where she meets Ryu at the end of the chapter and as Ayane for 3 chapters. Also keep the SoB and OT but an OT only grants you then 3k and no points for instant kill and killing spree, SoB gives 5k points like a UT but gives only half the essence that a full UT gives. So if an enemy gives you 1,050 essence for killing him with a UT then killing that same guy with a SoB will only grant you 525 essence.

Bring back the potions and let a player carry a maximum depending on the difficulty

Path of the Ninja Dog: 10 Life Elixers, 5 Great Life Elixers, 5 Devil Elixers and 3 Great Devil Elixers, a maximum of 18 LotG and 3 LotTG and 3 Rebirths
Path of the Lesser Ninja: same as path of the Ninja Dog
Path of the Greater Ninja: 8 Life Elixers, 4 Great Life Elixers, 5 Devil Elixers and 3 Great Devil Elixers, 18 LotG and 3 LotTG and 3 Rebirths
Path of the Head Ninja: 6 Life Elixers, 4 Great Life Elixers, 3 Devil Elixers and 3 Great Devil Elixers, 9 LotG and 2 LotTG and 2 Rebirths
Path of te Master Ninja: 5 Life Elixers, 3 Great Life Elixers, 3 Devil Elixers and 3 Great Devil Elixers, 45 LotG and 1 LotTG and 2 Rebirths

Ninpo slots should be like this on the difficulty

Ninja Dog: maximum 5 Ninpo slots
Lesser Ninja: 5 Ninpo slots
Greater Ninja: 6 Ninpo slots
Head Ninja: 8 Ninpo slots
Master Ninja: 10 Ninpo slots

Fiend Challenges and ToV's

Bring in 20 ToV's that can be started by teleporting as in NG2 and put in 20 fiend challenges that allow you to get the Master Ninja Ranking like in NGB

Each difficulty should have those ToV's and Challenges

Ninja Dog: ToV = 100 enemies; FC = 50 enemies
Lesser Ninja: ToV = 120 enemies; FC = 60 enemies
Greater Ninja: ToV = 150 enemies; FC = 80 enemies
Head Ninja: ToV = 200 enemies; FC = 120 enemies
Master Ninja: ToV = 300 enemies; FC = 200 enemies

Every enemy is worth 1,000 points no matter how weak or how strong they are

I would love that Hayashi brings back the Dabilahro, War Hammer, and UF and bring back the UT animations from NGB for the DS/TDS, VF, Lunar and DCTF, and bring back the UT animation from NG2 for the Scythe, Tonfa, KG and FT.

I recommend for the FC's and ToV's that the time limit is so that when people do a path of the masochist that they have plenty of time to do this and still can make the time limit. Also bring back the Vigoorian Berserkers so that they can take revenge on Ryu in a certain challenge. And when Ryu gets hit by an explosive arrow or an Incendary Shuriken from an enemy let him continue charging his UT even if it explodes in his face. Any projectile or melee that hits Ryu or anothe character does not interupt any UT charge.

Bring also bach the Intercept technique, that when you intercept you get a 1,000 karma bonus but you can get points for 100 intercepts each fight.

Example below in spoiler
Spoiler:
Chapter 9 completed

Time: 2:36:28 : 200,000
Kills: 1269 : 200,000
Essence: 19,268 : 10,000
Ninpo: 8 of 8 : 200,000

Karma: 39,689,250

Rank: Head Ninja
These are my ideas for NG4
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:24 pm

Any thoughts if NG4 will be talked about at the upcoming E3?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:59 pm

reim0027 wrote:Any thoughts if NG4 will be talked about at the upcoming E3?
Nope, team ninja tweeted they aren't revealing any games this year
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:03 am

I would like to see a nice mix of combat elements from the first three titles, with some new stuff, too. Give me NGB's emphasis on stun states, knockdowns and juggles, NG2's dismemberment as a product of opening up the enemy with a stun / crumple / down / juggle state and then striking them, and NG3:RE's use of Steel on Bone as a grab counter.

Add a whole new cast of enemies with inventive movesets and less emphasis on grabs as the most dangerous attacks in the game. Would like to see human enemies with more exotic weapons like maces, kusari-gama, scimitars, whips, hand-to-hand blade-grapplers, etc. Coming up with some ancient shadowy order of martial artist sorts that has it out for the Dragon Ninja would be quite useful in both story and gameplay terms IMO...

Would like to see a game that focuses less on shit-loads of enemies in waves and waves and more on a few dangerous opponents like NGB had. And then as the game hits the late stages, maybe then let loose with some really chaotic stuff like NG2 had, with six or seven elite ninjas rushing you.

Shops and items and little exploration and platform bits should come back. I like that stuff.

Also, drop the whole 'unmasked Ryu' thing. Forget the humanization. Come up with a simple revenge story and let masked Ryu drop some one-liners on Greater Fiends he's about to slaughter. That's all we need, and will work better since Team Ninja can't write for shit anyway. Simple is better here.


:sunnyd:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:18 am

Took the words out of my mouth.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by FullSpe3D » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:44 am

I can't disagree with a single point that MG said. Especially on making it get more chaotic towards the end, not even Itagaki could get that right. It sucks that once you've beaten the first chapter or two in NGB and NG2, you've effectively beaten the whole thing. MN needs to stop immediately rushing you with the most dangerous enemies, and save them for later. I guess they tried to to that with Ch 11 of NG2, but you just have so much cash going into it, that you can just spam Wind Blades as an instant win button then refill on Devil Mushrooms after each fight. I guess that's more a problem with how easy Essence is to come by as well, it pretty much becomes a non issue in both games. Bring back Essence and make it actually matter throughout the game. No more Fiend Ryu giving you absurd amounts just for UT'ing him.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:19 pm

Ch 11 was the best chapter in the game. Its too bad, as you said, you had enough cash to spam Wind Blades for the majority of the chapter.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:15 am

Hopefully they can pull off 1080/60FPS (no dips) with pretty graphics
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Ninja Noob » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:55 am

FullSpe3D wrote:It sucks that once you've beaten the first chapter or two in NGB and NG2, you've effectively beaten the whole thing. MN needs to stop immediately rushing you with the most dangerous enemies, and save them for later. I guess they tried to to that with Ch 11 of NG2, but you just have so much cash going into it, that you can just spam Wind Blades as an instant win button then refill on Devil Mushrooms after each fight.
I agree, and I actually think that this issue is much more in NG2 than in NGB. There is a load of chapters in NG2 in which you simply grind for essence on monsters. The problem is that they made ninja enemies much interesting to fight than monsters because this is supposed to be ninja simulator, but they probably wanted to make you fight ninjas in the first chapters for the same reason: because this is ninja sim and you expect fighting ninjas. Seriously, I'm sure that this is why the game is balanced this way.

I strongly think that an NG game is really difficult to balance for a developer giving how different is fighting humanoids from fighting beasts. It was the same in NGB. What's the fun in fighting Ogres and Berserkers? Same patterns over and over, ninjas have much more interesting patterns than beasts.

But what if they completely removed monsters? Maybe the game woul'd have been too repetitive, or too short. So they decided to make an awesome combat system for humanoid and give you a couple of beast chapters to take a breath and farm some essence, it's perfectly understandable. But in NG2 there is way too much beast carnage, with some pointless moments inbetween like chapter 4, chapter 9, I personally don't like most of the chapters and like to play only ch. one, two and eleven. NGB is much more balanced in this regard, and has a nice bow chapter too. Bow chapter in NG2 is just bow UT's behind sandbags.

I'm sure that Hayashi wanted to make a less ninpo/ut spamming game with NGS2 and NG3, but he just worked towards removing all the things he didn't like in previous games without finding an interesting alternative mechanic. But I can understand it because developing new, balanced mechanics in an NG game doesn't sound like an easy task. So I think if he made a polished NG2.5 game instead of a crappy NG3 it was better. So, what I can really expect from NG4 is a blend between NG2 and NGRE, with more polishness and less tedious moments.

I woul'd like to see a new NGB style game but I think it will never happen, because its combat system is not flashy nor modern. Modern audience expect super fast action and powerful characters with op moves and flashy combos. Still, NGB is my favourite game and to me has the most refined combat engine, when the balance between attack and defence is more subtle (maybe an unexperienced player like me shouldn't talk this way like a veteran, but you guys here are so noob friendly that I'll take the chance to have a nice gaming chat with you and share my thoughts anyways, thanks for being so friendly :ahhh: )

I personally don't like SOB chains, but I like counterattacking just that one enemy that attempt to grab you making him regret to take that risk. Maybe let Ryu throw his dead body against the other guys to stun them and setup what you want, but don't let him kill the whole lot with just one SOB like in Assassin's Creed. Or just implement a well balanced counterattack, I think it is well done in NG2, and like how differnt weapon have different CO's, and even CO combos.

Put more differentiation of weapons instead of one single gimmick for every weapon.

Karma: what if they change the karma system, rewarding style and combo variety? I think it woul'd be much more cool and funny to play and watch, without looking like a DMC clone given the unique combat system NG games have. Think about the environmental moves like wall runing, it woul'd be awesome if the designed some parts in the level to make you use them in spectacular ways to get karma.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by meyerpark00 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:04 am

I think SoB are a bad addition for difficultiness and challenge. It's like instant kill just by waiting for a grab. It looks fancy but cheap way to kill. Even Ng3 SoB was little better than NG3RE. Let's see what Hayashi will do but yes, a mixture of old NG like NG2 would be great. NG2 blood was better than Ng3RE. Oh and UT bow is good to return again too. Bring more projectiles like Incendiary shurikens again. Projectiles having capacity makes it more real and fair. Regaining capacity should be like NGB, NGS.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:54 pm

Don't worry about being a "noob" when you voice your opinions. Personally, I like SoBs. I would like to see more variation (different inputs), but make it more difficult to execute.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by meyerpark00 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:45 pm

If they make SoB harder to execute then it's more understandable and can't be abused imo.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by reim0027 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:50 am

Yeah. I like the concept. But, especially with the Scythe, it made things too easy at times. How would you change it (other than making the window shorter)?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Puregrunt » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:50 pm

Simply make the opportunities come up less frequently. It's pretty much a given that when you encounter a group of enemies, you are gonna get a "red grab" prompt. Make it unpredictable. It's no better than simply standing there charging UT's and having enemies charge at you for the inevitable release of the trigger. An UT or SoB should be reward based, like if you can successfully do a complex combo you can finish the enemy off with a flashy UT or a gruesome Steel on Bone. It will reduce the spam and force players to get better, rather than relying on chaining UT's or Scythe spamming through the game. Your weapon could flash to let you know when you could do it. Could lead to some really cool free form play. You wouldn't need essence either.


You would need to have a good variety of weapons to cope with the different enemies. Heavy weapons like the Scythe or Enma's Fang can be used on Beserkers, whereas you can use the Dragon Sword or Tonfa on the smaller guys. But, it's up to the player. If you want to fight a Beserker with a wooden sword...be my guest (sneh)


There is so much they can do with it. And i agree with MG about the humanization. Just go back to the one liners and basic revenge plot. It's enough.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Hicho9 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:21 pm

reim0027 wrote:Personally, I like SoBs. I would like to see more variation (different inputs), but make it more difficult to execute.
This is how I feel to. I love the SoBs in principle, but agree they need to be fleshed out and developed more for the next NG.

In thinking about NG4 and what new aspects to the game and combat could be introduced, I have been pondering what Team Ninja might do to make the game more "next-gen". Obviously, the visuals and environments should see a big boost in quality, perhaps even some more actual environmental variety and also enabling Ryu to traverse/utilize the environment in new ways.

But, in terms of the core combat gameplay....what could they do to set it apart somewhat from previous games and make it next-gen, but still keep the core NG experience? My thinking is that it will hopefully be connected to even better enemy AI and then also more dramatic, detailed and complicated dismemberment physics perhaps. Next-gen visuals should enable some pretty incredible flesh, blood and dismemberment physics....

I wonder if a possible idea might be to give players more active control in how and where they dismember and/or SoB. Imagine perhaps a slight change to the control scheme where instead of "light slash" and "heavy slash" buttons you have one button be specifically for lateral cuts and the other for vertical cuts. Players can then string together cool combos in the typical NG way but this time have more active control in the orientation they decide to slash and thereby what part of the enemy's body they cut. Some combo strings could lead to "low" cuts or "high" cuts, etc. Imagine how leveling up your sword could enable more powerful/devastating dismemberments (like Ryu coming down with a downward cut that literally splits a guy in half, etc.). You could then have cuts be heavier/stronger by holding down either button momentarily, similar to how this is done in NG3RE combos.

Anyway, just a seed of an idea. Great discussion guys....
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Puregrunt » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:03 am

One thing's for sure, there will be blood and dismemberment in the next NG....guaranteed lol. They know exactly what will happen if they don't! No doubt there will be a huge boost in graphics thanks to the power of Xbox One and the PS4. They should be able to have huge, epic battles with lots of crazy shit going on all over the screen. All at 60FPS :smile:


I would just love to hear even a tiny little bit of info about it, even just a screenshot. It has to have been in development right after Razor's Edge and will most likely be for next Gen only. Does anyone know when PS3 and Xbox 360 will stop being supported?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:36 am

Not until majority of users are on next gen
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Royta » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:11 pm

My wishlist is pretty grand, but I'll make it point by point:

* make it more open world as in NGB. Just focus on creating one hell of a breathing world as they did there. That place was awesome.
* make the setting more mythical again instead of 'real'. NGB and NG2 had really mythical places you visited, whereas NG3 was just...the world at it's most boring.
* bring back item and money management, make it so you can't farm and that each type of kill has it's own benefits. For instance killing with UT gives more essence, but absorbing for UT gives less etc.
* make it so that blue and red essence (oh yeah, bring back essence) give money if you're already at max.
* add new bosses and enemies with each successive difficulty and change up weapon/item locations.
* keep the crystal skull / test of valor challenges as hidden optional fights that give you huge rewards.
* focus on making responsive gameplay, it's okay if it's a bit slower to compensate.
* no ranged weapons, shurikens are okay. Thus also NO RANGED BOSSES NO ONE LIKES THEM
* no old weapons aside from the rare ones. Kitesu, Nunchucks, UF and Warhammer are good to return but the rest has to go and make way for new things. I feel like TN is constantly reusing old material now. Dragon Sword and Lunar can stay as they are classics but the Dual Katanas, Scythe and Claws are already making me sick :kungfu:
* no old enemies returning. Drop the fiends. Drop the soldiers. Make an entire new repertoire of enemies. Same goes for the bosses.
* no freak'n QTE's.
* no stealth.
* let trials be solo'able and co-opable. Design them so that when you play co-op, the enemy waves are different to compensate for two players. Don't freak'n let a solo player fight 20 Genshins (also, don't bring back Genshin).
* let girls have their own storymode of one chapter SEPARATE of the main campaign.
* chapter challenge as always
* start another master ninja tourmenant or eternal legend or w/e. Would be awesome!
* New Game Plus
* one versus one online multiplayer. Think the challenge maps in NGB where you fought Clone Ryu. Pick one weapon, one ninpo, and that's it.
* All new Ninpo and no doubles. Make one huge damage one (inferno or void), one area of effect with a lot less damage (inazuma?), one utility (smoke bomb style ninpo?) and one dismemberment (air?)
* NEW COSTUMES. Don't rehash all the old material. It's fun to see the classical suit return but I want some new stuff. At least make ALL the outfits from past games playable (like Future Ninja).
* Have a joke weapon available from the start for challenge runs.
* Allow the player to avoid learning any upgrades etc. to succesfully do an OLB etc. NGS2 wasn't nice with this as it forced you to pick up ninpo's for instance.
* Keep the Falcon for saving, good mechanic.
* Add more metermanagment, Cicida is nice for instance. Just give clear indicators when you have enough meter / ninpo to do what you want.
* No Paid DLC.
* Actually balance the weapons..
* Change the Izunadrop command from LHLLLH to LLLLHH. That way it's not an easy kill move and is actually dangerous.
* Remove the random i.frame/dodge stuff from Razor's Edge.
* No phase based bosses. Just one enemy you fight.
* No minions during bosses, please :bitch:

I think that's it. :coffee:
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Post by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:34 pm

God I hope we hear something soon. I have been looking seriously at bayonetta 2, then I realized I actually don't like action games (gow, dmc, etc) I just like ninja gaiden games.
After razors edge I am confident they will return to form. It's a great game, not my favorite, but still very good.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Puregrunt » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:35 pm

I would love to see just a snippet of info from Team Ninja :think:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden 4 Discussion

Post by Fiend Busa » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:53 pm

Team Ninja released the TGS lineup and nowhere does it mention NG4

Just DOA:LR and some other titles >.<
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