1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc info

A forum for non-specific Ninja Gaiden discussion.
Post Reply
queazy
Newborn
Newborn
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:05 pm

1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc info

Post by queazy » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:51 am

http://imgur.com/fsRd8gl

1) What other high damage short combo strings do you think I should add to this NG2 weapons chart?

Before I finish off this chart for good, are there any high damage combo moves from Ninja Gaiden 2 that people think need to be tested badly? Everybody knows that the XXY with the Lunar does a lot of damage with its last hit. So I thought that should be tested to find out just how much it hurts exactly. The YYYY combo with the Scythe also does a ton of damage, so I wanted to find out how much that does as well. Then I also did a few others, like the YYY with Dragon Sword, air-XXY with Lunar, air-XY with Scythe (miswritten as air-XYYY).

Are there any other really strong moves that you guys think need to be tested? Like what is the strongest single combo with say the claws that people would use a lot (an equivalent to Lunar's XXY short power combo).

2) What's a good way to illustrate a "rapidly press the button" concept with a still image icon? During Vigoorian Flails ET & UT, if you mash the button you can increase the number of hits at specific parts, need icon for that

3) Does this chart make sense? Is it easy to understand as soon as you look at it, or do you have to keep thinking about it for it to make sense? I'd like it to be easy to understand for people who don't even know english, so I'm hoping it is understandable on a very basic level.

Thank you.

--------------------------------------
NINJA GAIDEN 1 - MISC INFO & CHARTS for anybody interested:
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/psrgdrni1qkbs/INFO
User avatar
reim0027
Administrator
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:52 pm

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by reim0027 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:17 pm

It is very easy for me to understand, and a great chart. I don't know if you can put a "delimb percent" data on there.
User avatar
Dark Hazuki
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:00 pm
Location: Hampshire. UK.

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by Dark Hazuki » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:39 pm

I thought the chart was very easy to understand although I'm more of a left-to-right man, myself. :lol:

But great job, it's very interesting. Wish I could help you out with your first question, but I have no in-depth knowledge of combos or attacks. My brain just goes on autopilot when I play NG. :hypno:
User avatar
Zero-ELEC
Wasp Fiend
Wasp Fiend
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:37 am
Location: United Mexican States
Contact:

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by Zero-ELEC » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:41 am

Oh, hello Queazy, haven't seen you at the NGwiki in a bit!

As for the repeated pressing, maybe the (Y) button layer on top of itself? Like slightly off diagonally so that you can see it's many buttons? I dunno.
User avatar
Murphy's Ghost
Dark Dragon Incarnate
Dark Dragon Incarnate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Planet Bekenstein

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:56 am

Suggested additions:

Lunar
YYYYY (Bladed Spider, I think it's 5 Y's)

Claws
XX->XYYY (Wings of Vermillion Bird)

K-G
Jump / in-air YXY or YXX (same move)
And I forget the direct ground combo, it might be XXYY or XXXY, something like that? A little help here! :laugh2:

TDS
I'd be curious about the XXX->X attack and XXYYY. I doubt either of them does as much as YYY, though.

Dual Swords
YYYY
360 Y

Tonfa
->YY
360 Y, if only because the total damage of the ->YY A 360 Y combo is quite relevant.

Flails
XXYY
->YY


Awesome chart so far! :biggrin:

Just curious, where is the data coming from? The game files or you're measuring it somehow or what?
User avatar
RebornLS
Ninja Gaiden 2
Ninja Gaiden 2
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:03 am
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Contact:

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by RebornLS » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:59 pm

HOW DID YOU FIND DAMAGE OUTPUT?!

THANKYOU
queazy
Newborn
Newborn
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:05 pm

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by queazy » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:03 pm

http://imgur.com/rFH6KkG
I think I might stop this for a while, I kind of burned myself out trying to figure out that 360UT with the Dragon Sword.
reim0027 wrote:It is very easy for me to understand, and a great chart. I don't know if you can put a "delimb percent" data on there.
Oh hey! You are Reim! Thank you so much for making those Ninja Gaiden 2 vanilla master difficulty videos! I found those videos quite helpful.

As for a delimb rate per move, no I'm sorry. That would take a ton of time that I'm not interested in investing. It'd be something like test each move 50 or 100 times for delimbing rates. But I do have this piece of information. It seems that the reason the Lunar's 360ET is so lethal isn't necessarily because of its damage output, but rather it has such a very high delimb rate that it just delimbs over two times on an enemy. And if you can delimb an enemy twice it causes an instant death.
http://imgur.com/vjWAqv9
Dark Hazuki wrote:I thought the chart was very easy to understand although I'm more of a left-to-right man, myself. :lol:
Thank you. I will probably make the final version read in a left to right fashion, you're not the first one to bring up that issue and it's relatively easy to do. I had the bars read in a right-to-left manner because that is how the boss bars empties when you damage the boss.
Zero-ELEC wrote:Oh, hello Queazy, haven't seen you at the NGwiki in a bit!

As for the repeated pressing, maybe the (Y) button layer on top of itself? Like slightly off diagonally so that you can see it's many buttons? I dunno.
Woah! Number one I didn't think you were the Zero from the Ninja Gaiden wiki! Weird to bump into you here!
Two, I didn't think I'd be missed or anything like that! Sometimes I even thought adding a few images here and there was maybe a nuisance or something. I'll be sure to contribute some more. I have some more images I can upload here and there, mostly from NG2 though.

As far as the "mashing button" icon, I've tried something that you can see at the link at the top of this post. Do you think that the green / purple parts in the Vigoorian Flail section can properly give the impression of mashing the button? Or do you think that maybe it is a bit too much? I tried shrinking those yellow shock marks, but the point didn't get across. Do you think what is there gives the impression of mashing the button several times?
I also tried some things like at "http://imgur.com/aFNX4ep" but I didn't think it got the point across, even though it was neater and took less space. What do you think?
Murphy's Ghost wrote:Suggested additions:

Lunar
YYYYY (Bladed Spider, I think it's 5 Y's)

Claws
XX->XYYY (Wings of Vermillion Bird)

K-G
Jump / in-air YXY or YXX (same move)
And I forget the direct ground combo, it might be XXYY or XXXY, something like that? A little help here! :laugh2:

TDS
I'd be curious about the XXX->X attack and XXYYY. I doubt either of them does as much as YYY, though.

Dual Swords
YYYY
360 Y

Tonfa
->YY
360 Y, if only because the total damage of the ->YY A 360 Y combo is quite relevant.

Flails
XXYY
->YY


Awesome chart so far! :biggrin:

Just curious, where is the data coming from? The game files or you're measuring it somehow or what?
YES! This is the stuff I was asking about, which are the quick powerful combos that players will resort to using when they're in a pinch. You see I didn't just say "I'm bored, I wonder how much damage each move does". Instead it was a "Ok, this is the 40th time I've restarted the Test of Valor in Chapter 11 on master difficulty and I'm getting burned out... how come the red dinosaurs sometimes die in two scythe UT's and other times it takes four? I only have enough time to use one move, should I use the scythe's YYY, Scythe's air-XY (which seems weak), Lunar's ground or air XXY? And how come they don't die to 360ET's with the Lunar like everything else? I want to finish this, it's been two days..."

So finding out which small quick combos are useful to me, because if you try to do a long combo on say Genshin or a Red Dino, you'll probably get hurt in the process even though it might be quie powerful. I'll be sure to try most of those moves you recommended, probably all. As far as how I figured out the data, see what I write next.
RebornLS wrote:HOW DID YOU FIND DAMAGE OUTPUT?!

THANKYOU
Hi. I figure out this data by measuring the pixels that change color on the boss's health bar when attacking Rasetsu in NG2 vanilla on warrior mode. I recording gameplay footage at 720p, converting the video to frames, and measure the change in boss's healthbar in photoshop.
Please see "http://imgur.com/zrRTWby" for a picture that should hopefully show how I figure out his damage, which is about the Scythe's air-XY combo.
It's not an exact science since the component cables I use at 720p make the screen fuzzy, and I'm getting the feeling that the boss's healthbar rounds damage to the nearest even number (like if you do 7 damage, then 6 or 8 pixels of damage will be taken from boss's health meter).

Sometimes I have to study things frame by frame and do multiple recordings of the same move to figure stuff out. I did like six or seven recordings to test on both Rasetsu and those giant troll bosses in NG2 to figure out the 360UT for the Dragon Sword. See "http://imgur.com/coGNqih".

You may also be interested in see in the building blocks of the raw data I made to figure out stuff in Ninja Gaiden 1 Black / Sigma at "http://www.mediafire.com/folder/h8ai482 ... ing_Blocks".
queazy
Newborn
Newborn
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:05 pm

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by queazy » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:39 am

Oh my lord...it seems like most bosses in Ninja Gaiden 2 vanilla have an armored section (their front) and a weak un-armored section (their back). And if you raise the level of a weapon it will only increase the damage done to their un-armored weak sections, not at all like how they did it in NG1.

http://imgur.com/MC2razN

In NG1 increasing the level of a weapon gave it a flat out increase in every one of its attacks.
In NG1 against stadium Kitetsu Doku, if you did a flying bird flip with a strong attack with the Dabilahro, it would do:
60 pixels of damage when Dabilahro was Level 1
90 pixels of damage when Dabilahro was Level 2
120 pixels of damage when Dabilahro was Level 3
Regardless of whether you hit Doku's front or back, it was all the same. See http://www.mediafire.com/view/psrgdrni1 ... 3mihy8mh5q

Now in NG2 if you increase the level of your weapon, it only increases damage done to the un-armored weak side of a boss.
Like if you do a flying bird flip against Alexei with a level 4 dragon sword, sometimes you'll do 43 pixels of damage, other times you'll do 86. And its all based on whether you hit the back of Alexei, which could be a matter of luck based on something random, like if Alexei is in a certain part of a punch or kick.

This is totally screwing up with my numbers. Half the time I was recording data on the 360UT for Dragon Sword Lv4, I would get double damage for those nine flying swallows he does at the end. I thought they were just random, but its really Ryu hitting the weak spot of a boss.

So far I've been able to tell that Rasetsu, Genshin#1, and Alexei are like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if virtually every other boss followed a similar pattern. Atleast for those giant troll godimus enemies their legs are always their armored section.

Anyway, here is what I had so far, but I might have to throw away the data on this chart because it just might be unreliable since I may have been unknowingly mixing numbers from Rasetsu's armored & un-armored sides.
http://imgur.com/D869Eor
User avatar
Murphy's Ghost
Dark Dragon Incarnate
Dark Dragon Incarnate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Planet Bekenstein

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:44 am

queazy wrote: In NG1 increasing the level of a weapon gave it a flat out increase in every one of its attacks.
In NG1 against stadium Kitetsu Doku, if you did a flying bird flip with a strong attack with the Dabilahro, it would do:
60 pixels of damage when Dabilahro was Level 1
90 pixels of damage when Dabilahro was Level 2
120 pixels of damage when Dabilahro was Level 3
Regardless of whether you hit Doku's front or back, it was all the same. See http://www.mediafire.com/view/psrgdrni1 ... 3mihy8mh5q

Now in NG2 if you increase the level of your weapon, it only increases damage done to the un-armored weak side of a boss.
Like if you do a flying bird flip against Alexei with a level 4 dragon sword, sometimes you'll do 43 pixels of damage, other times you'll do 86. And its all based on whether you hit the back of Alexei, which could be a matter of luck based on something random, like if Alexei is in a certain part of a punch or kick.

While that does unfortunately make your task here a lot more complicated, it's a fascinating find. Great work!
User avatar
reim0027
Administrator
Posts: 4544
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:52 pm

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by reim0027 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:14 pm

Damn. What a PITA. I never knew about the "unarmored" side. Especially that the upgrades don't upgrade damage to the "armored" side.
User avatar
Fiend Busa
Ninja Gaiden 2
Ninja Gaiden 2
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: 1-What short strong combos to include in chart? 2-Misc i

Post by Fiend Busa » Sat May 03, 2014 5:07 pm

More BOTA/Dual Katana
Running YY
Forward Y
XY(YY)
Post Reply