Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

PLATFORM: Xbox 360; RELEASE: June 3rd 2008
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Ninja Noob
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Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:25 am

These are the rules:


Story mode
WARRIOR difficulty
All ToV's
Original life bar
No items
No UT's
No Ninpo
No Incendiary Shuriken
No Izuna
Minimal use of Guillotine Throw, forward Y (Falcon Talons) and 360 Y (dual katana), I'll use them only when it's necessary or if it fits the situation.
Melee Water Dragon and Armadillo's.


I started on Novice difficulty but it was really easy, so I switched to Warrior and I'm having lots of fun. Basically, the concept is that I have to fight the enemies, learn their patterns and learn the movesets of the weapons, fill the knowledge holes that I have about the game.


OLB is not an issue at all because the enemies do very small damage on Warrior. I've got to chapter 8 without throwing a single UT, Ninpo or Izuna. I'm learning all the patterns of Gaja's, werewolves and mechas. The Dragon Sword and the Lunar Staff are OP on this difficulty and are very easy to use. The sword is fast and the staff is good at staggering/stunlocking, both have very good delimb rate. I didn't use the Talons very much since I imposed myself to limit the use of its best moves, and the combos don't seem to be very practical. Iused them on a ToV where the forward Y move was necessary, but that's it.


A weapon that I like is the dual katana. It 's very good but it's not too powerful like the Lunar or the Dragon Sword, if you play ground game without spamming 360. XX->Y has good delimb, ->Y (hold) YY is very good too and has variants. I try to not spam the 360, I used it when I need i-frames against bosses or when there were packs of enemies.


I used the Scythe against the mechas and Armadillo, and used the Tonfa on Dedalus and against Genshin. I use the Tonfa Flying Swallow against the rocket spammers and against IS ninja's, but I try to not abuse it. Though, it's really difficult to play agains IS's with this set of rules, so sometimes I have to spam FS's. Still didn't used Kusari Gama that much.


I started this run yesterday. Everything went fine until chapter 8: after the rocket spammers at the beginning, there is that sections with multiple mechas. I kill all the spammers, and then I fight the mechas: even if I keep them out of camera, they attack me with projectiles and diving attack, and they always come to fight me two at once!


I even tried to spam forward Y with talons or 360 with dual katana, nothing! I think this is impossible with these rules. If you have suggestions, let me know, otherwise I'll have to berak the rules to continue.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:38 am

Update:


so, I had to use ut's in chapter 8, just one fight. I also used them against some pillbugs. Killed the regular worms with the scythe and the worm boss with the dual katana (easy). Chapter 10 went really easy, because it's warrior difficulty. I killed Liz with dual katana, but I din't even figure out how I did it...


Now, chapter 11: I had to use incendiary shuriken against the archers at the start and also did some izuna's against mages. Now I think I'll have to use izunas in rasetsu fight for the IS ninjas.


So, I think this run could be declared as FAILED XD


Though, I'll continue and see what condition I'll be able to keep until the end of the campaign. It's still OLB no item no ninpo, and basically I used ut's in one spot only.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Massaca » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:46 am

I wouldn't worry at all about using UT's on the worms, pillbugs and purple dragons. Nothing interesting about fighting them "properly", it's just crappy tedium.
For the archers, windpath through, delimb and OT?
The mages used to be some of my fav enemies to fight. Groups of them are awesome. Wish there were some fights with them in larger areas.
Ninja Noob wrote:so, I had to use ut's in chapter 8, just one fight.
The 6 (I think?) mecha-gelfs?
Ninja Noob wrote:the worm boss with the dual katana (easy).
No UT? Makes it interesting doesn't it?
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:37 pm

Yes, the mecha gelf, I didn't find any solid strategy for them, even using i-frames moves like 360 or ->Y.
The worm with no UT bota was really easy, because it is Warrior difficulty, so it went down pretty fast, I think it'll become more interesting when I'll try a similar run on mentor and MN. But I was happy that it wasn't a chore like fighting it with the scythe ut's!


Big update now: I did the rasetsu fight in chapter 11: no ut, no ninpo, no items, olb! I used the claws and I abused the FS into izuna and the ->Y move, but I was pretty happy! I don't think it sounds like an actual achievement, because Warrior is a very forgiving difficulty, it was three rasetsu and a bunch of IS ninjas, but when I started the fight I thought it would have been impossible. Though, I didn't resign, and learned how do defend, it was pretty satisfying. I think that watching Kazama Jin/Susamajii videos helped a lot, he shows some important strategies about defence which are crucial.


Also, it's the first time I try to fight rasetsu with the claw. ->Y move let you be pretty aggressive against him.


Then fought my way through the next gauntlet and saved.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by reim0027 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:57 pm

That's impressive with the Rasetsu fight!
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:50 pm

Thanks but it's on Warrior difficulty! It's not that great, though it was tough. Now, I just killed Zed II and Volf + centaurs full melee. They do small damage so it's easy to survive a lot of mistakes. I killed centaurs with the scythe jump XY and Volf with the dual katana, the centaurs dropped some blue essence so it was really manageable. I stayed at a distance, wait for Volf to do a ranged attack, then hit a centaur.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by reim0027 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:11 am

That Volf II fight is tricky. The hardest part is the damn camera.

I wouldn't be able to do the no UT thing on enemies that don't reliably stun. I would get too pissed off. Well-played.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by H.Smoke » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:37 am

For the Mechas just block their combos and punish with one of your own (Tonfas and BotA likely will delimb it at some point). If you are fighting more than one try to keep on camera the one you're fighting and keep the others at middle distance more or less. Hate to say it but sometimes when fighting more than one you've to get a bit lucky on what they decide to do and when (no one likes getting stomped when you're about to combo one of them, right? :hmm:)

Also I know you are trying to go UTless but as Massaca said there are some enemies/sections that are just no-fun. In the section you mentioned in chapter 8 there is a safe spot behind the sandbags before the tank that you can spam UTs against the Mechas safely. It is particularly useful in Mentor and MN because the Mechas + Rocket Ninjas combination suck.

For the Gajas the BotA absolutely wrecks them. Launcher into FS or any combo with a (Hold)Y most likely will delimb it. Also XYXXX > Windmill Shuriken > 360Y is one of the best combos to abuse. Basically with the BotA you can style on a single one while maintaining a bit of crowd control. Red Gajas are mostly the same, except they hit way harder and although you're playing on Warrior since you are going OLB then one combo can kill you if you get distracted (which can easily happen when you have 10 Gajas dancing around you). Evading the Tail Slam is a bit tricky, you should try to get it down.

I hate Lycans so I usually just do >Y with the Claws. Not a fan of their I-get-stunned-when-I-want way of life. BotA and Scythe wrecks them pretty bad though.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:38 am

@Reim: well thanks! But I can assure you that Volf + centaurs on Warrior is pretty manageable.


@H.Smoke: for that section in chapter 8 I used ut's, but didn't exploit the safe spot. But when I had to fight them in other instances, I din't have problems because of the low damage output of Warrior difficulty. I still cant dodge that jump->tail attack from the gaja's, any suggestions?


So, current status of the run: ut's used on chapter 8 mechas, some dogs encounters, some pillbugs encounters and one against the last centaurs wave before the pool of blood. Ninpo used on some dogs encounters. Still no items used and still OLB. Genshin and Elizabeth fought with DCTF/BOTA because I didn't find any other consistent strat. I found that they are particularly vulnerable to ->YY. I honestly don't remember how I used to fight them on my runs in 2014 when I started playing this. Those bosses have random i-frames even when they are not attacking.


Currently on Dagra Dai: I guess no ninpo it's impossible, right? I don't remember how to dodge the light beam after the pillars of dark energy from the ground and I get hit by the lightnings. What sweet game, this is.


I'm already looking forward to a Mentor run like this one: minimal ut/ninpo/izuna/IS, OLB no items. I don't know if it's possible especially for my level. I think it could be possible if enemies don't hit too hard, which I don't remember...
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Massaca » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:17 am

I always say the game is damn near perfect but if I ever really stop to think about it properly, all things considered, I think Dagra Dai is just bullshit. I don't think it's even possible to OLB, no items, no Ninpo him on Mentor/MN. I've never heard of it anyway (though to be fair, I've never really looked). His lightning is just ridiculous, quick and long not giving you a chance to get out. Maybe if you had the Van Gelfs to help you get around with windpaths but I think he can still destroy you with ease. Pretty sure the BotA's jump XXXYY can't even combo right through the lightning without you still getting hit at the end at least once And I'm pretty sure you can't throw a 360Y in at the end or on landing without it hitting you in between. Don't know what he's like on Warrior.

Ninja Noob wrote:Genshin and Elizabeth fought with DCTF/BOTA because I didn't find any other consistent strat. I found that they are particularly vulnerable to ->YY. I honestly don't remember how I used to fight them on my runs in 2014 when I started playing this.
I think the usual cheap strat is Kusari-gama jump YXY. It's surprisingly good for both of them.

As for the Gaja tail attack, do you mean the grab one or the other one that's like a whip attack from the air?
For the later either block and reverse wind or try dodging towards/underneath them them. For the grab, I dunno, been way too long.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:23 pm

Yes, I meant the whip attack from the air, if I block it I take a lot of chip damage. I also tried to dodge towards it but I still get hit from time to time.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:54 pm

So, Dagra Dai "behaved" and I only used a ninpo against him, last bosses were pushovers.


Final balance:


OLB
No items
All ToV's
Melee water dragon and worm boss
Ut's used on chapter 8 mechas, dogs and bugs, last centaur fight
Ninpo used on dogs and Dagra Dai
Izunas in chapter 11

OLB no item no UT no Ninpo no izuna no IS fulfilled until chapter 8


Now, let's see what I can do on Mentor!
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by H.Smoke » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:41 am

Congrats

For the whip attack is just practice and timing, honestly. There is not a lot I can tell you about it.

Dagra Dai is an asshole. I remember in my Mentor OLB run I beat him without items or Ninpo, but I'm pretty sure I had to use 1 Talisman now that I think about it. If you don't kill the VanGelfs that spawn in the tunnel he won't summon Gelfs in the fight, did you know that? Of course if you die and continue he will summon the damn things so you are stuck restarting from the save point if you want to go that way :hmm:
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by reim0027 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:02 am

Nice! I never could beat DD without ninpo (or items). I did him on MN with an OLB (several times), but I item spammed.
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Re: Trying a run with restrictions! Need some help

Post by Ninja Noob » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:50 am

As I said in the post, I used one ninpo against DD, but yes, I didn't use a single item for the entire playthorugh. On Warrior is easy.


H.Smoke, thanks for the advices!
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